The Lost Edison Motors Video
Added 2024-06-18 18:21:06 +0000 UTCI pulled my Edison Motors video down due to my failure to anticipate people's reactions. I was waiting for Edison to do some testing and post some results before taking another stab at it. But, it doesn't seem like that's going to happen any time soon.
In the meantime, here is the original video.
When/if Edison ever posts some test results, I would like to make another video about the whole concept. I still think it's interesting, but I also think the hype train is way overloaded.
Comments
I should try to contact him. He is the king of quirky EVs.
Watch Wes Work
2024-06-29 15:42:07 +0000 UTCI plan to revisit it at some point. They posted some videos that they are finally doing some testing.
Watch Wes Work
2024-06-29 15:41:33 +0000 UTCYeah we're just not there yet. There's a reason we don't see a ton of EV semis running up and down the road. Once they get batteries to be more efficient, it will make a lot more sense.
Watch Wes Work
2024-06-29 15:40:58 +0000 UTCNo, but I think I would have enjoyed doing that.
Watch Wes Work
2024-06-29 15:39:42 +0000 UTCThey seem to have gotten a huge injection of $ so I think there is no stopping the train at this point.
Watch Wes Work
2024-06-29 15:38:50 +0000 UTCAnd I'm not sure I'm the guy to do that, but I think what I said is accurate.
Watch Wes Work
2024-06-29 15:38:19 +0000 UTCTo be fair, there are a lot of drawbacks with internal combustion as well, but it's hard to sell people on a new technology unless it really is better, and I just don't think we are there yet. It's really just the batteries that hold us back. Everything else seems to work well.
Watch Wes Work
2024-06-29 15:37:32 +0000 UTCYeah that's pretty much it. People seem to think their system is a silver bullet when in reality it only makes sense for a very narrow use case. But, Edison never seems too keen on bringing that up. The fact that they are making their kits for pickups mean they are doubling down on an idea that has never made much sense. I can't think of a single EV retrofit kit that has ever panned out in the real world, and hundreds of companies have tried it.
Watch Wes Work
2024-06-29 15:36:00 +0000 UTCI have seen this video several months back. As soon as I saw the drawing of the mountain drive down and up, I knew it. Not complaining. I'm listening again. Thanks, Wes, for all the time and calculating, graphs and drawing.
Jeffry Blackmon
2024-06-23 16:05:43 +0000 UTCThe folks that push ev’s never want to talk about the negatives or any of the drawbacks. It’s a common theme with most ideas or concepts based on feeling and not facts
sean
2024-06-21 05:55:56 +0000 UTCI’ve watched the first 30min of the response video from Edison published back in April. I get the feeling so far that they are saying something like, “you’re right but…specific use case blah, lots of variables blah.” There seems to be a disconnect from what they are saying (marketing), what the public is hearing and what they mean. Any thoughts on the Edison response?
Don Delagrange
2024-06-20 20:50:53 +0000 UTCI'm all for a perpetual motion machines and future fusion energy. Show me the numbers. I was surprised the video was taken down in the first place.
John Lundh
2024-06-20 01:02:03 +0000 UTCThese thing do deserve to be looked at practically. Especially for knowing the "how" of them--like the significant difference between parallel versus serial powerplants. More perspective on this is better than less. Not to discount Bob Dunne's yeomans work on EVs
CapnMac82
2024-06-19 19:43:38 +0000 UTCGlad you put it back out there. It’s good thoughts on the concepts and cost vs benefit analysis is very helpful! Dont feel pressured to remove controversial content, its the kind of stuff we need to challenge incomplete ideas or processes
Stephen mowrey
2024-06-19 14:37:16 +0000 UTCThanks for giving us the link again, Wes. I enjoyed the video, regardless of the fact I’ll never own an Edison. The concept is intriguing but it seems like a dog that won’t hunt in reality.
Jay and Kate
2024-06-19 12:27:13 +0000 UTCNothing wrong with your video the first time or now.
Bill Scott
2024-06-19 03:54:49 +0000 UTCThanks for doing this video Wes! I'm always impressed at how thorough and detailed you are. Were you a tech writer at some point?
Doug Wray
2024-06-19 02:58:54 +0000 UTC👍
Sam Ellison
2024-06-19 01:25:02 +0000 UTC👍
Sam Ellison
2024-06-19 01:24:47 +0000 UTCIt's only listed on here, but if you send him a link, he'll be able to watch it.
Watch Wes Work
2024-06-19 01:04:44 +0000 UTCGlad to see you reposted this. Lots of discussion on this. Your analysis appears to be very on point. Have to see if this is on your regular YouTube cannel. My son is an engineer and will be interested in your commentary. No pressure. 😁
Sam Ellison
2024-06-19 00:40:06 +0000 UTCThe fan boy hype train tried to run over Wes. But Wes will turn out to be 100 percent correct with his assessment.
adorfer
2024-06-19 00:37:03 +0000 UTCThanks for bringing it back Wes. It seemed like this took an incredible amount of time and work to make. I hope it sticks around. The only way industries move forward is by being held accountable for progress and standards they claim.
Noah
2024-06-19 00:05:25 +0000 UTCIf it is a series hybrid then I would say yes, it's the same. That might be a good test case.
Watch Wes Work
2024-06-18 23:16:46 +0000 UTCRam has the new ram charger which is basically the same thing as the Edison truck as I understand it. Would you say the concepts you discuss in the video also apply to the ram charger?
Conner Wright
2024-06-18 23:00:32 +0000 UTCYes - I completely agree, Wes. The hype train is out of control and off the rails. Unfortunately we live in a world where constructive comments are viewed as hate. It didn’t used to be like that and are worse off for having lost the ability to have civil discourse. I appreciate your videos and the honest commentary you provide. Don’t let the nay-sayers stop you. At was worth watching a second time and I still believe you provide a solid analysis!
Russell Wall
2024-06-18 22:36:52 +0000 UTCThere is a lot of marketing and hype and very well made videos and all that jazz. It all seems so super, that alone makes me think "If its too good to be true, then it isn't". And it takes a lot of work and time to pull some actual facts and numbers out of all the marketing material to get a clue if and how good this will work. It's easy to assert a lot of technical things when you know it's hard to debunk. Eventually they know that certain things do not match up (yet) and they are hoping to solve that on the way.
thedeafguitarist
2024-06-18 22:29:50 +0000 UTCAs for why bigger diesel locomotives don't directly drive the wheels, it is simple that the gearbox would be a lot bigger than a generator/motor combo. Having a lot of gears on a 5000ish horsepower diesel gets really big, having a generator and motor make the 'gears' a big box of power electronics which scales a lot better.
SA007
2024-06-18 21:47:30 +0000 UTCI drive a 1996 honda accord, 24 city and 32 highway everyday. The 1999 Porsche 911 and 2000 Toyota Tacoma 4 x4 sit in the garage. Because I'm cheap....
Jon Koferl
2024-06-18 21:30:11 +0000 UTCI thought the analysis was spot on, its a neat concept and I especially like the whole working mans truck with normal dumb available parts, not some excessively clever nonsense like burying your climate controls 7 menus deep in a 15" touchscreen, or putting parking sensors in your 2000 dollar tail lights. As to the series hybrid story they also get used in boats, but afaik only in icebreakers. its got to do with the inherent inefficiencies of energy transfer from one state to another.. its basically hydrostatic, good for avoiding drive train shock and maneuverability, lousy for efficiency. A well executed (maybe plug in) parallel hybrid with the same reasonable styling and utilitarian chops could be a real blockbuster.
Greg
2024-06-18 21:26:47 +0000 UTCFormer engineer here from the heavy duty diesel space, you weren't wrong in the video. I actually lost a lot of respect for the Edison guys over that. Their use case is extremely narrow and series hybrid may not even work in that scenario. Full series hybrid powertrains only work when there's significant opportunity for over-running load capture (regenerative braking to the lay-person). For passenger cars this works well because so much of the time is spent in stop'n'go driving. You also have fairly small, light-weight, efficient motors to work with. In the case of a fully loaded logging truck descending a hill, maybe; but the 2nd law of Thermodynamics applies to marketing as well as engineers. For basically any other heavy duty diesel application? Naw. You'll get some small benefit, but the payback period will be very long. And, as you correctly identified, the efficiency of electric motors falls off at high average load (which usually isn't seen in the passenger car case). Many people look at rail locomotives or mining haul trucks (which are definitionally series hybrids) and assume that technology works across the board. They actually have a very low thermodynamic efficiency but are diesel-electric for very specific reasons. Rail has high freight efficiency because of extremely low rolling resistance (steel wheels on steel rails). Haul trucks are electrified because the electric drive train is more robust at such high installed power levels. They actually sacrifice fuel efficiency in that application. The thing that no one talks about for Edison is how they're going to manage criteria emissions certification. Current heavy duty diesels are certified to FTP and RMC for the complete engines. There is no prevision for hybrid powertrains (EPA is supposedly working on it). It appears to me Edison has simply purchased a genset and slapped it into the truck. From a certification standpoint, that's a no go once they try to scale up production levels. So what I'm saying is, ignoring the efficiency question, they'll have much bigger fish to fry once they actually want to sell the things.
Nicholas Hansford
2024-06-18 20:25:54 +0000 UTCIf you weren't so honest about all your work success and failure, the skeptics might have a genuine bone to chew on with your comments.
Maurice Johnson
2024-06-18 19:29:29 +0000 UTCGotta be ready for all the hate when pulling the emergency brake on a hype train. People seem to get more upset by it than derailing at full speed over the cliff of reality.
BitterCynic
2024-06-18 19:23:39 +0000 UTCFirst, major kudos to the guys from Edison Motors, they are the definition of innovation. Saying that the problem with EVs replacing the wide spread use of ICE, is the advocates lack, in the words of Thomas Sowell, consequential knowledge. Further even as Communist China is finding out, you can't short circuit supply and demand, and try to control the free market and expect anything other than failure and economic collapse. Right now the free world is starving itself of cheap power in the name of net zero, while China is churning out cheaply made (and heavily subsidized) EVs while simultaneously building coal fire power plants; IOW it's about world domination not profit or net zero . As alluded to here, fossil fuels are so cheap and energy dense, that efficiency arguments always lose to the bottom line of reliable and cheap transportation using technology and infrastructure already in place, vs expensive and a total lack of infrastructure and technology that will cost trillions of dollars and leave the world in shambles. My favorite fact toid is if we are to reach net zero in 25 years, considering the raw materials necessary to build enough EVs and then necessary infrastructure, the world would need to mine more copper by 2050, then has ever been mined in the history of the world.
TheOnespeedbiker
2024-06-18 19:17:20 +0000 UTCI think you overestimated the "good guys" factor. Don't mess with them.
Adrian Gadd
2024-06-18 19:15:38 +0000 UTCIt's plain physics getting screwed around with by optimistic economists and greedy car salesmen.
Terry Lawrence
2024-06-18 19:10:58 +0000 UTCThis video is worth it just for your explanation of why EVs are so over-torqued, alone. That's the clearest explanation of that that I've ever run across. It may be the only explanation of that I've ever run across.
Christopher Hogan
2024-06-18 18:59:01 +0000 UTCYou're entitled to your well-considered opinion. If they or others want to refute your statements or criticisms, they're welcome to do so. The idea they espoused that this truck isn't for OTR is definitely being downplayed in favor of the overall hype. I don't fully understand the apparent contradiction.
Adam McKnight
2024-06-18 18:53:42 +0000 UTCAgree with the others here, I'm glad you are reposting it. It seems to me they are trying to make it work, but they do seem to be "winging" it and without outside funding, it must be a huge amount of work for them. They seem to have a spot for certain applications, which is great, but its going to take a long time to become a commercial reality.
RandomThingsKeithDoes
2024-06-18 18:45:28 +0000 UTCSadly producing a thoughtful, balanced video doesn't always get thoughtful, balanced responses. I find Eric and Chase very personable and I would like them to succeed but the product must live up to the hype. When this goes live on Youtube I will not be visiting the comments section, as they used to write on old maps "there be dragons there".
Tim Allan
2024-06-18 18:45:14 +0000 UTCI appreciate you re-posting the video. Even if you were wrong (and I'm entirely unconvinced you were on any point), it's important to have in-depth analysis like this, and show how you arrived there. It gives a lot more context and information to those wanting to learn more, and ultimately it should make for more informed people. It definitely would be good for Edison to come out and identify just what they feel the flaws are, and share additional context/information on why they feel you were wrong at times. Being open and honest should only help them produce a better product, unless they're selling vaporware, in which case they're unlikely to ever escape others noticing.
Tony Publiski
2024-06-18 18:43:02 +0000 UTCI watched the entire video and appreciated you making it. I think you are spot on. Keep up the good work!
Juerg “Yogi” Abplanalp
2024-06-18 18:42:18 +0000 UTCThanks for reposting this. Few talk about this in an understandable way. And, they have chosen the path of vague promises aggressive response to criticism.
Daniel Clawson
2024-06-18 18:36:42 +0000 UTCGood for keeping it around wes. Your opinion on the whole thing is valid, balanced, and well considered. People are asses though.
Chris Jenkins
2024-06-18 18:30:10 +0000 UTCUnderstanding this is above my pay grade but I find it interesting never the less
Rolln 22
2024-06-18 18:28:37 +0000 UTCSo glad to hear you put this back up. It’s not the people always agreeing with an idea that makes it better. It is the people challenging it to perfection.
Nick Vogel
2024-06-18 18:28:23 +0000 UTCFor sure. Thank for keeping it around.
ɥsoſ uʍop ǝpᴉsd∩ (ʘ︹ʘ)
2024-06-18 18:26:06 +0000 UTCI really liked the video when you posted it the first time. I think it just deflates their ambition. I assume they are hoping to make the math work along the way. Unfortunately like most hype campaigns they don't like to hear doubt and or the hard truth that more than likely their idea is not the perfect solution. I think they are a couple of good people who will make a nice product and hopefully some useful innovation will be discovered along the way.
Taylor Jennette Zhu
2024-06-18 18:25:27 +0000 UTC
